So its official, I'm a Bitch. o.o I guess.

If you dare read this, I am basically a bitch. I'm not sure how this has happened. But alex says it's just because that's the way i have become more around him. This must be true as I still don't exactly see why i am such a bitch the conversation below. But well i must admit i was angry, therefore in defense i'm a bitch. Don't piss me off, and i won't be a bitch. Simple isn't it! Yep so if you want to read this, your lesson learned will be Z is a bitch and if your shit sucks then im gonna complain. Maybe not to you, but I'm not gonna hide away my attitude and act like oh so happy either. Meh. So honestly i'm glad this is what i finally bitched about other than religious intolerance. Because trust me i have a full paper i'm going to write about it. Well it is more of a letter to someone. o.O I will never stand religious intolerance or ignorance from anyone. And just so happens that a lady i work with is scared of a 3 inch by 6 inch picture of a woman praying to shiva. Totally another story to share some other time.


Anyways, Enjoy the conversation below. Unfortunately i cannot link to the site as you must be logged in to view the forums. =) I may keep this updated if anyone else replies to it. But i think the conversation is pretty much i'm a bitch and therefore cannot be right (supposedly). I don't need other people to know i'm right i suppose. But ya know just some understanding would have been nice. Usually when any person complains about anything someone will listen and understand. Unfortunately people like the ones posted in strong opposition to me, yea they never seem to actually behave like that in person. If you bitch to someone or to a group of people like everyone does on tv, generally you don't act like a young teenager and become an idiot. Well maybe on that fox news channel.

Much love to everyone, Even the idiots.
Yes they do have something inside them, i just have no idea what it could be.

~Z


~p.s I've gotten pretty good at contact juggling. Well. Just okay but i'm still practicing pretty much daily. Maybe i miss a day now and then but yea.





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Home > Frustrations > I want to complain! > F for Effort Needed.
Page 1 of 2 > AngelicDagger 2 days ago
Hmm, I'm unsure how to rate a swap i've recieved. It was late so i have no reason not to rate a 3. And that is most likely what i will rate it. But here is my rant. The sent items are i guess worked on. As everyone has thier own style for things i cannot turn my nose up at them. But the collaged atcs have bits barely hanging on.

Also i was sent a tag that was owed to me for back since may. I'm not sure if i should show a picture or not. But I had requested something with a star. Well, the atc i received is a black background, a partial star and cut out words. I could see how in saying that - it could be something nice to receive for something ive waited this long for. I mean atleast i got something, even though there is no effort in it.

I spend a lot of time and money on my swaps i send out. I do aim to get hearts, I throughly enjoy spoiling people! I guess i feel like if i'm going to send late, then i should reward the patience of the receiver. I shouldn't make them happy just to have received the swap. I want them to be so happy that they waited.

Anyways, I know i spoil my partners and generally don't get less than half of spoiling back. Which is fine, alteast someone's day had been brightened.

How do i get partners who actually care about what they send?? I'm sure a few of my partners wish they had someone else - who could make awesome inchies or kick a atcs. But i try and make up for my style in art with other things. I know a few swaps ive gotten have just been way tooo cool.

What's your trick to having a quality partner? Or do people really perfer to do the minimum in a quick fashion?

Bleh don't take this seriously, i just needed to rant about the tag and atcs. I just wish people would put more effort into swaping. @.@ My bf hasn't been supportive much of swapbot, mainly because i get wrapped up in working on them. But even he has noticed that somethings are just lazy.

If ratings did not count, and we could judge in a less harmfull fashion besides 5's, 3's and 1's. I would rate my swap i recieved on the abcdf scale a d or an f. I honestly wish i could rate all swaps that way. Its nothing to do with hearts. It's like a little way of saying that A+ this is a great atc, well done! It doesn't count the extras or anything. I guess i would want f's to count though. Like any thing else if a person is consitently sending out something f material then why should others with b averages have to deal with it? It would be like a host getting to ensure that all participants are worth someone elses time. (NOT that in all honesty everyone is worth more than time.)

=.=' Thanks for reading, I'm sure i got some point out. Again Don't take this serious, just grr. =)



KatarinaNavane 2 days ago
On other ATC trading sites where everyone sends to one central person who then redistributes the cards and sends them out, sometimes trades are "like-for-like" where you get cards of a quality roughly equivalent (in the eyes of the host) to that you sent. Of course these trades are more expensive since they get sent twice instead of just once, but you might want to look into it. Or perhaps you might want to join the hand drawn/painted ATC group, or do private swaps with people who make good cards.

I was thinking of doing an ATC swap where you have to spend a minimum amount of time on your card. Not sure how best to run it though.


AngelicDagger 2 days ago
I'd be into the swap if you make one. A way to show time spent could be draw a sketch, then do it again with colored pencils or w/e?


CelticDragonfly 2 days ago
considering im the person you are talking about ...i spent ALOT of time on these atc's and they are my FIRST attempt at making atc's. collages are my median, i cant draw or paint like you can. Yes i was super late sending i moved then had problems the the apartment postal carrier. and for the record the background was outerspace aka stars on the one atc which was star related ... http://www.flickr.com/photos/celticdragonfly83/ and i put alot of effort in my work


snowqueen1426 2 days ago
You might consider looking at other swappers flickr, or photobucket pages and ask to do a private swap. I do understand,, I've received some things and really wondered.. but...........

In my auctions I have stated.. you are rating your partner on the guidelines for the auction. not on how well you like what you received.. The quality of work you receive is going to vary and we are not grading the work. Some people are doing their very best work... and yes I know sometimes you find work.. that will not be up to your standards.. If you are dead set on not trading with certain people check the list of names before the partners are assigned and drop out if you do not like what you see. Was what your received.. Did it meet the "swap requirements"? From FQA There are only three different rating criteria: I got my stuff and it met posted swap requirements (5 points); I got my stuff, but it didn't meet the posted swap requirements (3 points); I never got anything (1 point). Keep in mind that you are NOT rating your partners on whether or not you liked what you received, only on if it met the requirements of the swap. The fun thing about swaps is that you never know what you are going to get, and that means that sometimes you may not be thrilled with what you receive. Also, remember that everyone (including the person you are rating) can see who you are and what ratings and comments you gave. It is important to rate participants honestly, but it is also good to be kind even if you have to give someone the lowest rating.


djmom11 1 day ago
I enjoy seeing the different skill levels of ATC's I receive. My skill level would be in the lower categories! Some I am just amazed at and love their methods, others I find boring and so/so in craftmanship. In all the ATCs I've received I have not liked at all only two of them. Those I didn't keep. They met the swap requirements, I gave a 5, and just went on with life.


MissJay 1 day ago
The fun of these swaps is that you never know what you will get. Sometimes you will be underwhelmed and sometimes your sox will be knocked off. I suppose you could start your own group of known swappers who meet / exceed your standards and new applicants must submit a sample. If you do this, AngelicDagger, please give me your addy as I wish to apply.


pahasiga 1 day ago
There is a group like that for ATC swappers, you could try finding it.


MissJay 1 day ago
Yes, there are at least 2 ATC groups and I'm a member but they take potential flaker relative newbies, too, don't they?


Tinker60 1 day ago
Of course at some point you're going to get something you don't like, don't want, is of poor quality, etc., but the reason I enjoy the ATC swaps is because I enjoy making them and sending them. I certainly realize that my work is not going to be liked or appreciated by all who receive it, just as there are some ATCs that I've received that I didn't like or thought were not so good. I also enjoy getting things by newbies because we all started there at some point in our life. I certainly understand getting a bit frustrated when you've put a lot of work into a project only to receive something that you feel was not up to your standards, but that's the way swapping is. . . it balances out by the absolutely fantastic ones you receive and wish you could do the same. I certainly hope that you were nice enough to let th person know that perhaps they need to use other glue when doing their work because it can be tricky and unless you tll a person they won't know.


CelticDragonfly 1 day ago
tinker60 i used a gluestick and found it to work just fine regular glue is too much and makes thinks turn out lumpy....


Rejoicing 1 day ago
I think everyone has a different skill level, and everyone should be able to send and receive freely without fear of public criticism! :(

I appreciate the way the rating system is...A person should get credit for following the rules, and sending on time. Even if they are not as good as you. If you don't like what they send you, don't join any more swaps they are in!!!


zigg13pra 1 day ago
Yes, there are at least 2 ATC groups and I'm a member but they take potential flaker relative newbies, too, don't they?

I run an ATC group and I DO let everyone in that is not partially suspended. This does not mean that they are able to participate in any swaps (that is up to the host of that swap). But they are able to be in an environment where they can discuss different methods and check out other people's work. Why should I deny them because of the quality of their work? How would they ever get better?

There are I think at LEAST 3 'quality ATC groups' out there and quite a few more ATC groups total.


KatarinaNavane 1 day ago
The "established ATC swappers" group theoretically does a quality check, but the officers are so inactive if you apply (and it's a closed group) it could take months and months for them to let you in and even if you get in, there hasn't been a swap in that group for as long as I've been in it.

The other thing you could do is try doing swaps on somewhere like deviantart or even atcsforall where you can look at someone's gallery before swapping with them and even pick out what card you want (with the stipulation that they're doing the same)


zigg13pra 1 day ago
but the officers are so inactive if you apply (and it's a closed group) it could take months and months for them to let you in

Acutally, only the 'founder' can accept you into a group when you apply...


SkippyMom 1 day ago
@zigg13pra - but don't the officers have access to the "founder" and therefore notify them of a request?


zigg13pra 1 day ago
The officers cannot see who has clicked the 'join this group' button. Only the founders can. IF the officers are contacted by the swapper wanting to join, then in turn contact the founder.. yeah that would work, but so would contacting the founder themselves without involving an officer.


AngelicDagger 1 day ago
@celticdragonfly - I did not mention your name. But since you have decide to say something. I understand your frustration about my comment. It did not bother me when i knew you would be sending late, and i've said that. You've kept me updated on that. The atcs look thrown together. I understand if this is you method for atcs. But I never expected to get something that after soon long would be like that. I did not expect to receive a tag with maybe a 1 minute effort spent on it. And i apologize for saying that, i am not trying to be hurtful with it. I came here to rant about it. Not to bring hurtful words to your attention.

@snowqueen1426 - I do look at people's profiles and photos. Indeed that is why i set out to try a few personal swaps. With the swapper mentioned, I dropped from the astrology atc swap and she noticed. Kindly she asked if i would like to do it privately with her. Of course i really wanted to! Now as you go on about the rating system, yes i know all this. Which is why i talked about it being a rant and not taken seriously so thanks. The only reason i said i did not know how to rate is because i could very nicely still give her a 5 and heart for sending the set and tag out of the niceness of her heart and for keeping me updated about the latenesss even if i had to email her a few times just to ensure it was still coming. But it deserves a 3 for lateness even if kept in the loop. It has been since july that the swap ended.

It was simply i wish i could rate for my personal opinion of the swaps i receive to a letter grade scale to without it being harmful to the swapper in a rating way that all would judge. Because that would be unfair which is the reason i did not post picture of the atcs sent to me. Anything is better than nothing and art styles are random and many. Just because i don't appreciate the style i was sent doesn't mean i don't know how to rate.

As for the talk of atc groups, yes i am in one. But no i don't feel the need to join swaps i don't feel inclined to. Atc groups really have nothing to do with my rant, I was more than happy with joining in the astrology atc swap with celtic. It was my choice! I have no reason not to join in swaps with her either. She is a nice person. Even if she doesn't see me in the same light now. I happen to believe i posted this in a place i could complain about the swap i received. I also happen to believe that i did NOT try and bring celtic down by including her name, nor photos of the swapped cards.

Just because i did not like the cards does NOT mean i need lectured by any of the people above. Even if it was just said as advice. If a person sends something as someone mentioned how will they ever get better? A teacher gives criticism. Although i am not a teacher, if someone else doesn't say it, then who will? I wasn't saying it to her, i was upset and wanted someone to be understanding as a few had been. Sorry if my criticism was undue to anyone elses point of view but my opinion is my own and i needed to share out of frustration.

Thanks.


dulcimer 1 day ago
A teacher wouldn't give criticism in front of the whole class.


Vblarney 1 day ago
I think that if you want to "improve" a swapper's ATC ability, you could always just send them a PM. I doubt they'd appreciate it, but you could do it.

As for your rant: The "you don't meet my standards" ATC rant is a touchy one on swap-bot. Mainly because of all the reasons listed above as well as the fact that so many people have made similar complaints before. You could always look for past ATC rants and find the people that think the same way and swap with them. Don't know what to tell you if they also send you sub-par ATCs. Wait, actually I do: Buy them on Etsy or look at Flickr photos for ones you'd like to trade for.

Just an FYI: It is kind of mean to say that someone did the "minimum in a quick fashion" when that's really just your personal opinion, not a fact. A rant in the public forum isn't the best option if you don't wish to bring hurtful words to the attention of, well, everyone.


spinjenny 22 hours ago
"i am not trying to be hurtful with it. I came here to rant about it. Not to bring hurtful words to your attention."

"I happen to believe i posted this in a place i could complain about the swap i received. I also happen to believe that i did NOT try and bring celtic down by including her name"

The fact is that if you post public rants about other members, it is likely that the people concerned will read it, recognise themselves and be hurt. Yes, this is a place where you can complain, but it is not, and never could be, a place where you can do so without running a high risk of hurting the person concerned. If you don't want to hurt the person, post the rant in groups to which that person does not belong. Anyway, if your intention was also to give her constructive criticism as well as to rant (not that I see much constructive in your OP), you must have expected her to read it. As the others have said, any warning about inadequate glueing or 'advice' about adding more elements to her ATCs would have been better given in a PM.


RyeRye 20 hours ago
Angelic, this is just nasty of you! Pure and simple. To bring this to the PF's is just wrong. I see you do not understand that your little rant has caused some waves and I find that even more irritating then the rant itself!

Shame on you.


AngelicDagger 4 hours ago
Public forum or not, there is nothing wrong with anything i said.

@ryerye shame on you for being nasty yourself.

@spinjenny - It was not constructive critism nor did i intend it to be, and no i did not think she would read it because she is supposedly so tied up in many other things that she cant get her swaps out on time. And to hide my rant in a group forum is just ridiculous. I did not say the swappers name, nor give info. If i had then i would understand where this is coming from.

@vblarney - I never said it was a fact, i did say it was my personal opinion.

@dulcimer - Actually yea they do, you must have missed some classes.


bonbon 4 hours ago
Theres an old saying-Praise in public,criticize in private. Theres also a good book to read- " How to win friends and influence people"


SkippyMom 4 hours ago
A good teacher never criticizes a student in front of classmates. That is plainly cruel and against policy. I am sorry if your education included such instances @AngelicDagger that is just sad.

I don't think @dulcimer missed anything.

Home > Frustrations > I want to complain! > F for Effort Needed.
< Page 2 of 2 zigg13pra 3 hours ago
Just because i did not like the cards does NOT mean i need lectured by any of the people above.

Then why bring it to the forums? We try to listen and help and you turn around and bitch us all out? WTF?

I TOTALLY agree with what @Ryerye said.



runswithscizzors 3 hours ago
Damn, and here I always thought that teachers who belittled students in front of the entire class were the norm instead of the exception. I had them from Kindergarten to college. Must be California's superlative educational system that allows such behavior, I don't know. I had professors who took much delight in humiliating students to the point of tears.


RyeRye 2 hours ago
you haven't even scratched my surface of me being my nasty self.

So ALL these other members are way off base and you are totally in the right huh?

Wow. I just can hardly contain myself hoping to get you for a partner one day!


eyeskater 1 hour ago
Wow...

My friend Wil Smith said it best I think.

"Don't start nothin'...won't be nothin' "

Don't come rantin' in a public forum about someone's work and expect them to keep their mouth shut. Just because they're busy, doesn't mean they won't take a minute or so to read the forums.

This is why I do very few ATC swaps....God forbid I get someone who thinks my work is crap or not up to their standards.


mwquilt 1 hour ago
Whether or not the original poster did the right thing by posting here, it has prompted me to look at the profile of @celticdragonfly I am a little bemused by the various reasons that @celticdragonfly gives for having her swaps and tags "on hold" or late.

From this thread: "Yes i was super late sending i moved then had problems the the apartment postal carrier. "

From their profile: Getting married in November Stuff is in the trunk of their husbands car Says there are a few tags that she had cleared from the "sending" list that need to be added back to it ( does that mean they are not really sent?)

There's a profile comment from someone expecting and not receiving a tag, who has now been angelled, on their profile comments

The profile starts with what is effectively a statement that the swapper expects to be receiving 1's because of the forthcoming wedding.

I wonder if the original poster's rant was not so much triggered by the quality of the work on the atc in question, but by the fact that they had apparantly been waiting for it since May, combined with what @celticdragonfly says on her profile about stuff being on hold?


eyeskater 1 hour ago
Maybe a little from column A.....a little from column B.